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U Frame engine removal

Need some advice from the veteran U frame oweners.  Doing my first overhaul on one of these, an MH 25.  I have all of U frame bolts out back to where the engine and transmission mate.  My question is - can the engine be lifted out of the frame without the transmission or do they have to come together? If together how far back do the bolts have to be removed? The parts and service manuals arent real helpful when it comes to pullng the engine.

Thanks
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25-top-down.jpg

RE:U Frame engine removal

Jeff 
give me a call ! 319 240 2766 
dennis

RE:U Frame engine removal

JeffK.
      I would definitely lift the engine and gearbox out together. I am told that with the later models of the 'U' frame this isn't neccessary but in my opinion it's advisable. Undo the half ring of bolts holding the g/box and final drive casting together then  lift the front of the unit enough to clear the front baffle and then lever the gearbox forward enough to clear the two locating dowels in the rear axle casting, not always fitted. The center of gravity is about at the rear cylinder. I always remove the oil pump first, you need the help of a foot high dwarf with the strength of a grown man to do this!. Watch the oil lifter gear when you set the engine down. You may have a little difficulty in separating the g/box and engine as the spigot on the input shaft can be stuck in the central pilot bearing in the flywheel.Have Care and Good Luck!.
                              Jack.

RE:U Frame engine removal

Thanks much!  I actually discovered I had a second service manual on the shelf which outlines the removal procedure however the devil is sometimes in the little details not spelled out in a manual.  Appreciate all the advice and certainly open to more.  

Jeff

RE:U Frame engine removal

Jeff,

          The manuals for 20-30 and 25  both say to remove engine and gearbox as one.  I have only the experience of pulling my 20-30 but having done that I think if you can just pull the engine alone there would be a good chance of damaging the gearbox input shaft or clutch linkage.

On the 20-30 it is suggested you have the back wheels off the ground so that they can turn allowing the gears to disengage as you pull the engine/gearbox assembly.

What I didn’t understand was having the engine and gearbox dangling from my hoist how was I to separate them without doing some damage.

I took two 8 foot long 6x6 fenceposts and some angle iron and made a frame with the inside dimension between the angle iron equal to that of the U frame.  With two other offcuts of 6x6 at each end the frame top is about 18 inches off the floor. I made cutouts for the shafts that stick out each side of the gearbox.

I greased the angle irons and having un-bolted the engine from the gearbox slid the engine forward.

This has been a very useful workbench used throughout the restoration of the engine and gearbox and a good height for working. The last photos show I am ready to reconnect the engine to gearbox and put it back in the frame.

Alan Painter, Brownsville,Oregon

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Eng-Gbox-Flywhl.jpgDiff-removal.jpgEng-assembled.jpgGbox-assy.jpg

RE:U Frame engine removal

That is slick! 


I never thought about making a jig like that but I certainly am now.  What is the inside measurement between the rails?  


RE:U Frame engine removal

Jeff,
For my 20-30 it is 18 inches, probably the same for your 25 but can't be sure.
Alan Painter, Brownsville,Oregon

RE:U Frame engine removal

Don't forget there is a plug of some sort that goes in the end of the crank shaft to reduce the flow of oil out of the crank. It is easy to loose that. I don't remember all about it but if you look on my Green Challenger rstoration I talked about it.

RE:U Frame engine removal

DanP/JeffK
                 Too right!!, this is a restrictor fitted in the rear main bearing to lubricate the pilot bearing, nothing to look at, just a short piece of rod which falls out if you tip the crankshaft on it's end. Ignore it at your peril !!.
                                             Jack.

RE:U Frame engine removal

DanP/JeffK/Jack
When I picked up my crankshaft after re-grinding the machinist presented me with a small length of rod that fell out the end of the shaft.  The oiling drawings in the manuals show the oil path in the end of the crank to lubricate the throwout bearing but I haven't seen mention of this little plug in the manuals or parts book. Clearly if there is no plug there would be considerable loss of lubrication and oil pressure to the bearings.
All the car or truck engines I have worked on used either an oilite bushing or a ball bearing as throwout bearing supposedly "lubricated for life".  None were fed oil from the engine oiling circuit.
I have replaced my throwout bearing with a shielded on one side bearing. It comes greased from the manufacturer and  I believe should need no further supply of oil from the crank  so I have replaced the plug with a threaded socket  head set screw.  
Is this a bad idea?
Alan Painter, Brownsville, Oregon